Courtesy of Steve Serby
Q: Describe the moment Willis Reed came out of the tunnel before Game 7 of the 1970 NBA Finals vs. your Lakers at the Garden.
A: One thing I remember about it is how loud it was, OK? But I honestly thought it would give us an advantage. It would make it easier for Wilt [Chamberlain] on the inside. But having said that, we probably played the worst game [losing to the Knicks, 113-99]. And for me, I think might have played the worst basketball game in my whole career in that game. I remember after the game, I said to myself, “I don’t want to do this anymore. It’s too painful personally.” I felt like we had let a lot of people down. For the Knicks, it’s a signature moment for the franchise, and for him to go out there and do that — there’s not many players would do that. There’s few, but not many. And that has changed over the years, because at that point in time, you were expected to play whether you were hurt or not. And many of us did. And I’ll never forget my ears … two days after that, there’s still ringing in my ears.
Q: You hit a 60-foot shot in Game 3.
A: It was kind of a numb feeling, to be honest with you. I played every minute of that game, and we tied it. … It seems ironic today that we didn’t have a 3-point shot. The way that series turned out, we would have won that series, I think, in five or six games. And we lost that game in overtime [111-108]. I’ve had so many people say that they were there at the game. Trust me, the building wouldn’t hold ’em all, OK? The outcome was bittersweet.
Q: You enjoyed playing with Wilt?
A: He was one of the most uniquely different people that I’ve ever been around in my life. I felt that at times he never felt he got the credit due him. The two of us were probably pretty easy targets, because you would think that someone of his stature would have won more than two NBA championships during his career, and it was grossly unfair how people looked at him like that. And hell, I had never won a championship playing alongside one of the truly great players who never gets his due, and that’s Elgin Baylor. I had kind of an interesting relationship with [Wilt], particularly our last year together [1972-73 season]. It was really interesting because many nights we would, unbeknownst to most people, we would go in his room or my room and have dinner, and talk about a lot of things, many of ’em not basketball related, to be honest with you. But I found him to be very introspective, also now in many ways like all of us, the insecurities that we all have sometimes as athletes. It’s easy to feel great about when you win championships. There’s never been a real, I guess, study done of teams that have lost and what it feels like. It’s like, “Oh, God,” it’s like, “This is it, it’s done, and we’ve lost.” With all the hard work and all the dedication — from many people, not only the players that get the attention, but for many people — it takes a real toll on everybody … in organizations, coaches, trainers, my God, just down to the people who work in the front office, it’s kind of a devastating feeling.
Q: Your whole career and life, really, you’ve taken losing harder than most, correct?
A: I wouldn’t know that. I don’t know how other people do, but even to this day it still haunts me. I’ve always been kind of a perfectionist. I watch teams in this league now … there’s always gonna be teams that are successful, and teams that are not successful. And I watch every game. And to watch how some teams who are not winning, how hard they play and how much they put into it. You can see that if they would have the right personnel, that they would have a chance to win. But the secret is, is to have players. If you don’t have players, you can’t win, OK. You just cannot win. To find the right coach to coach that team, I think is the most difficult job the front office person has to do. And then, when you get that person … Style of play has changed drastically. The 3-point line has changed the game so much. The day of the big man, unless you’re extraordinary good, is not numbered, but certainly you gotta be a lot more versatile to play the game today. You gotta be able to really run up and down the court. And then there’s certain teams that, if they have the right kind of players, can play a different style, they’ll slow the game down, and defensively they become better.
Q: In your junior year, your 1959 West Virginia team lost in the NCAA finals loss to California, 71-70.
A: I’ve had a lot of disappointment in my life, but little did I know that that was one that would lead me on that path. But I think the thing that I remember is that I got in foul trouble in that game and I wasn’t able to play a lot of the game in the second half in particular. It was a close game and really hard fought. I remember a tap-in that Darrell Imhoff made — it was probably the luckiest thing I’ve ever seen in my life, he just hit the ball and it went in the basket, and we were, I think, ahead by one. And then also, having the ball at midcourt and time running out and not being able to get a shot off. That was the start of almost something that followed me throughout my basketball career when it came to winning things that were most important to me, and at the end of the day, be the last one standing.
Q: Describe winning the gold medal and standing on the podium for Team USA in the 1960 Rome Olympics.
A: Greatest thrill of my life. At that point in time, there were only two people that received the gold medal, it wasn’t the whole team. For some reason, the co-captains of the team, Oscar Robertson and myself, lifelong friend, lifelong competitor, for the two of us to go up there and receive the gold medal, for me, it was one of the most thrilling things in my life. I’ve always been really nationalistic, and I had a brother killed in Korea. And I think, the “Star Spangled Banner,” even today — and I’ve heard it a heckuva lot of times, OK — has always been a significant feeling to me. I know with me, competing was the greatest thing of all, and to have a chance to compete for your country. And at that point in time, there was a lot of stuff going on in the world that was … not for the best for the world, it wasn’t best for the black race, and in the Cold War of communism, threat of nuclear war. … We were doing things for our country that at that point in time, even though you thought about it, you didn’t realize the significance of it until a number of years later. And for me, that’s always been the highlight of my life, to go up there and represent your country along with one of the truly great players to ever play the game, and more importantly, someone that I valued as a friend and valued as a person.
Q: Did you hang around with Cassius Clay?
A: No, no. You’d see him around the [Olympic] Village, even then he had his own entourage. To watch him grow up and become this iconic figure that even he is today, he was a person that people rallied around. He had charisma like no one, and it’s still that way today.
Q: Is there any way to describe how sick you were to see Celtics coach Red Auerbach light up those victory cigars?
A: It might have bothered someone else, it didn’t bother me. I had great respect for him as a coach. At one time, there was real talk that I was gonna go to Boston as a player for Bill Sharman. And I know that was discussed. But it didn’t happen. I thought to myself, “My God, playing there certainly would have given me a chance to play on a lot of championship team.” In Los Angeles, we were the ones who on many occasions lost by a nose.
Q: When you finally won the 1972 NBA championship beating the Knicks in five games, what was that moment like?
A: It probably didn’t strike me till a couple of days later, to be honest with you. Peggy Lee had a song, “Is That All There Is?” That’s sorta how I felt. … I walked to that locker room, and it almost didn’t seem like that there was any difference until a couple of days later.
Q: And then when it hit you?
A: I thought, “Oh my God, something really positive has happened.” It wasn’t for me personally, OK? For the city of Los Angeles, my God, they had to endure all this stuff for years, and to finally say we won, I felt a sense of responsibility to our fans. I hated to miss games … at the height of my career, I missed a lot of games due to … just a hamstring pull. And I hated sitting out, I just hated it. You play for your team, but you also play for the people who attend the games. I’d say it was uniquely different to us to have won it.
Q: You were 1972 All-Star game MVP.
A: It was much more competitive, I’ll tell you that, than it is today. Today it’s kind of a fun event. That was kind of a magical year in Los Angeles. We’d won the 33 straight games in a row, and to play in Los Angeles in front of our home people, and to win the award, that’s always nice. I knew it was late in the day for me as a player, and that was pretty unique to be part of that.
Q: Describe the Showtime Lakers of the 1980s.
A: They were so much fun, and of course, Magic Johnson, that smile on his face, made it look like this was the easy way to play basketball. Trust me, that team was so competitive it was a joke.
Q: How would you compare your ’72 Lakers to the Showtime Lakers?
A: We talk about players of yesteryear, guys who could play or couldn’t play, and I think it’s ridiculous to try to even compare people. … The things that you can do in basketball today that you couldn’t even do then … you can carry the ball, you walk all over the place. … It makes it easier, but also, basketball, I guess, is about entertainment. … I’ve often thought that playing today, when you have the best of everything — the travel is so much easier, not playing three games in three nights in maybe a three-week period, or maybe four times in three weeks. … Players talk about being tired, well, not many players play 40 minutes a game. I think there was five or six times in my career I averaged over 40 minutes a game. It was easy. I didn’t get tired, period. I didn’t want to come out. I didn’t like people I played against even though some of ’em were friends, I didn’t like ’em. I don’t like fraternization at all. Away from the game, it’s fine. I hate when I’m watching games today on TV, a team’s getting beat by 25 points and you got people laughing on the bench. I don’t like stuff like that, period. I don’t like it.
Q: You were nicknamed “Mr. Clutch.”
A: Never really thought about it a lot. It’s flattering that people would talk about that. I hear people talk about clutch players today, and a lot of ’em I don’t think are as good as advertised.
Q: What was it about those moments that you liked?
A: I thought it was easy to score. … And the reason I did is because teams didn’t want to foul you if the game was close. … I hear these announcers, what do they call it? … “Lock-down defenders” … I don’t know who’s a lock-down defender in the league. I know there’s a lot of good ones, but I haven’t seen someone to stop someone that’s a good offensive player.
Q: What was Pat Riley like as a teammate?
A: Unbelievably dedicated, hard worker, really a fierce competitor. And someone who was my best friend. I think he knew his role. He was someone that you liked having on your side. You weren’t gonna get a free day in practice if he was playing you. And I used to tell him all the time, I said. “Look, I’m so sore, why don’t you go guard [Gail] Goodrich or somebody else? I don’t need you beating on my ass.” Very prideful … very professional.
Q: You didn’t enjoy coaching?
A: I hated it. It was hard enough for me to deal with myself as a player. … Again, I’d say I was obsessive with my day-of-the-game same routine. I would see players eating at 6 o’clock or 6:30 or something like that, and I’m saying to myself, “How in the world do they do that?” I had to eat at 2:30 or otherwise I’d be so sick it would be a joke. … You have all kind of models of what you should do as an athlete today in terms of eating and sleeping. … For me, the sleeping part was the most difficult part because I couldn’t sleep after a game.
Q: You cut Kobe Bryant’s impressive 1996 predraft workout against Michael Cooper short.
A: Michael had been out of basketball a year, I think, or maybe a year-and-a-half, and we asked him to come up and participate. And Michael was a tremendous defensive player, but not much he can do with him, that’s for sure.
Q: You drafted Derek Fisher later in the first round that year.
A: Hard-nosed kid who we had hopes that would make our team as a backup. He really kinda was a position-less player — he really wasn’t a point guard. But he was another of those dedicated, hard-working people who even though he didn’t have all the things that you look for in a player, he had a long, productive career, and it has served him well throughout his life. He won’t fail because of work ethic, that’s for sure.
Q: What advice would you give him going through what he’s going through now as a rookie head coach?
A: Have Phil [Jackson] get him better players. For any coach who’s going through it, have whoever’s running the team get better players, and you’ll see better results (chuckle).
Q: Do you think the triangle offense could scare away free agents?
A: I think it takes unique players to do it, in the sense they really have to buy into that. When Phil went there, if you looked at their team, they had a lot of players that have played one-on-one basketball, and sometimes it looks disorganized, but it’s not. And I think those players would not fit into what maybe Derek — and again, I don’t know what interaction Derek has with Phil — but I think one of the things you want to do is have a relationship with your coach and find out what kind of players they like. My best guess is that Phil didn’t think those players there were capable. And it’s easy to criticize for everyone who’s involved. … He might have done the right thing. But if there’s one player I wouldn’t have traded, it certainly would have been Tyson Chandler. I think in Phil’s case, this is not something that he’s done before, and he will work hard and get the kind of players there that are necessary to build a winning team. But I’m not so sure he didn’t do the right thing by letting these players go.
Q: Why wouldn’t you have traded Tyson Chandler?
A: I just think he’s a very valuable player. And very well respected in the locker room. I think somewhere along the way, you have to take your lumps and try to bring the kind of players that will let a team succeed and get better. New York fans have always been very aware what basketball’s all about, and I think this will give him a chance to try to build a team there that has a chance for success long-term instead of short-term. It takes a lot of courage for someone in his position to do that. He’d never really been criticized before. It’s easy for people today to criticize. I don’t think he deserves it. Let him serve his time there and see what he’s able to do and then make a judgment. Their team wasn’t gonna win at a high level anyway. … This is gonna be a real good free-agent class. I think they’re gonna be highly sought. New York is kind of an intriguing place. When I was in college, I heard that Minneapolis at that point in time — I didn’t play in Minneapolis — but I heard they were gonna draft Darrall Imhoff and I was going to New York, which was where I really wanted to play.
Q: Why?
A: We played there when I was in West Virginia, and I liked the atmosphere, and the fans really knew what was good basketball and what was not. We had a team that ran up and down the court and played fast-paced games and people seemed to enjoy it, and we were always well-received there.
Q: Were you disappointed from afar when Bryant and Shaquille O’Neal couldn’t get along?
A: I always think it’s foolish when egos get in the way of doing something that’s really special. They had a special bond together in terms of winning, and why it ever got to that point, I have no clue. I don’t understand things like that, I really don’t. Winning is the ultimate great feeling in sports, and it’s about a team, it’s not about individuals, and when players get into these rifts, whatever they might be, I don’t understand that.
Q: What do you think of NBA commissioner Adam Silver?
A: He’s a great guy, and he inherited a tough job. I think he’ll be great.
Q: Describe your West Virginia coach, Fred Schaus.
A: Most exciting time in my life when I looked up, sitting in this little house that I lived in in West Virginia, seeing this great big guy walking down without a sidewalk in front of our house. … I said, “Oh, my God, that’s the coach of West Virginia.” He was the first coach that ever came to visit me, and all of a sudden I felt like, “Maybe I’m gonna have an opportunity to play basketball at a higher level.”
Q: And your mom liked him right away, right?
A: Oh yeah, he was very personable, a real gentleman. And I do remember he said that he wanted me to walk up to his car with him, so he gave me a West Virginia blue and gold, right? And so he gave me a T-shirt (chuckle), and it was a gold one. And I’ve always been partial to blue. And he said, “Well maybe we’ll give you a blue one too, OK?” (chuckle). That was my first experience with really being recruited. But very exciting period in my life, and someone who obviously had a tremendous influence on me when I was in college, and really helped propel me into something I never thought I could become.
Q: Your Team USA coach Pete Newell.
A: Greatest man I’ve ever met in my life. Father figure … had an incredibly close relationship with him. Someone who always remained part of my life even after being my Olympic coach. One of the kindest, nicest men I’ve ever met in my life. An unbelievable competitor in his own way as a coach. And someone who I felt was very much like me in the competitive way. Hated losing … something that I guess that’s still inside of me, I just don’t like to lose. And particularly don’t like the way you lose sometimes when teams just outwork you. I don’t like that at all.
Q: Boyhood idol?
A: There was very little information about people except football or baseball. … Basketball at that time was just a sport in transition and growing. … I really didn’t have one. I was sort of a boy who loved the outdoors, loved fishing, loved being in the woods. And then basketball was my fantasy in life. I could make myself bigger than life. … I could play a game by myself — I was a coach, referee, I get to one second on the shot clock and find a way to make it after missing 10 times and always have one second on the shot clock. And I can distinctly remember just counting down if it was three seconds — 3, 2, 1, and turning and shooting it. And at that point in my life missing it most of the time because I was so small.
Q: Three dinner guests?
A: Abraham Lincoln, Martin Luther King, Dwight Eisenhower. And if I had a separate dinner, I’d love to have dinner with Winston Churchill. I read a book on [Franklin D. Roosevelt] and Churchill, and when FDR died, Churchill said the following: “I’ve lost my dearest friend and the greatest man I’ve ever known.” Those two guys would be right at the top of the list, too.
Q: Favorite movies?
A: Probably anything with Jack Nicholson in it, “Enemy At the Gate,” “Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid,” “Silence of the Lambs,” “Apocalypse Now.”
